they still can't see the light when it comes to the fiscal cliff. 28 days to go. what will it take to get a deal? >>> plus, the stern warning for syria from nato. the use of chemical weapons will bring an immediate reaction from the international community. we ask our panel if the united states will go to war. >>> and a new hollywood movie about the hunt for osama bin laden sparks oscar buzz and outrage. questions over just how much confidential information the film makers had access to. an "outfront" investigation. let's go "outfront." ♪ >>> good evening, everyone, i'm erin burnett. "outfront" tonight, let there be light. finally, some bulbs turned on in washington this evening. well, on the congressional christmas tree, that is. pretty beautiful. lights, love, camaraderie, song. but while our lawmakers took some time to celebrate together, they still weren't showing any spark when it came to negotiating a deal to avoid the fiscal cliff, which is the christmas present the country needs. today we heard president obama's response to the proposal that house speaker john boehner put on the table yesterday.

the fiscal cliff deal the president presented. boehner offered a proposal yesterday. i asked cole if he's frustrated with john boehner. >> no, not in the least. look, i support the speaker. and we're actually not very far apart on anything. and, you know, at the end of the day, he's going to negotiate a deal. it will probably be a challenging vote for a lot of people. i always support him. i would expect i will again and try and persuade others. just to be clear, i'm not for raising taxes on anybody. i think it's a mistake. i think all republicans believe that. however, you have to recognize the reality that at the end of the month, tax rates for every american that pays income tax are going to go up. so there is an area that we do agree with the president on. that is 98% of the american people, getting about 80% of this tax cut shouldn't have their taxes raised. so my suggestion -- it was delivered, by the way, in private and leaked and put in public. but that's fine. i mean, it's certainly what i said. my suggestion was let's take the one area that we agree and take it off the t

meet with each leader this morning to talk about the fiscal cliff or slope or curve. but whatever you call it, politico's front page headline reads, fiscal cliff deal emerging. it hashes out the flame woframe agreement including $400 billion in cuts to entitlements. but how close are they really? depends on who you ask. >> what's going on between the decision makers is little to nothing. >> you can actually now see what the contours of the deal look like. >> i'm optimistic that we can continue to work together to overt this crisis and sooner rather than later. >> we will not negotiate the end of medicare. i don't know what it is with these republicans. >> it's safer if you're on the progressive end of the political spectrum to go over the fiscal cliff than it is to agree to some of the things they're talking about. >> ruth, where do you stand, deal or no deal? >> not who deal, but who are more pessimistic. the clock is really ticking. about ten legislative days left in the year. outlines are there but the willingness to do it and the ability to get it done in time, i'm more disappointed than i thought i would be at this point. on the other hand, this is the

congressional leaders and the white house to add vert the fiscal cliff scheduled for tomorrow, but, guess what? the president will not be attending it, secretary tim geithner will. regardless of the -show tomorrow, president obama is hopeful to get a deal done by christmas, not inspiring confidence for pushing small businesses as key democrati leaders refuse to put entitlements on the table. for more on all of this, republican congressman langford of oklahoma. congressman, welcome back, always great to have youere. >> thank y very much. gerri: president with strong words for congress. here's what he had to say. >> if congress does nothing, every family in america will see their taxes automatically go up at the beginning of next wreer. right now, as we speak, coness can pass a law that would prevent a tax hike on the first $250,000 of everybody's income. gerri: there's the president calling out congress. what do you have to say, congressman? >> yeah, here we go in the middle of this. the house passed all our tax things in april. we passed the sequestering documents in may. we waited for the senate since may to reciprocate on that. the senate and white house sat on it, and they said we'll see you in the lame duck period. now it's lame duck, a

workers pennsylvania to sell his positions on taxes and a fiscal cliff deal. >> i also got a chance to meet some of the folks who have been working around the clock to keep up with the christmas rush and that's a good thing. these guys are santa's extra elves here. they manufacture almost 3,000 connect pieces every minute and every box that ends up on store shelves in 30 countries is stamped "made in america." that's something to be proud of [ applause ] by the way, i hope the camera folks had a chance to take a look at some of the kinex including that flag made out of kinex. joe biden was in costco, he wanted to buy some of this stuff but i told him he had too much work to do. i wasn't going to have him building roller coasters all day long. now, of course, santa delivers everywhere. i've been keeping my own naughty and nice list for washington. so you should keep your eye on who gets some kinex this year. there will be some members of congress who get them and some who don't. [ applause ] look, this is a wonderful time of year. it's been a few weeks since a long election finally came

part of the daily negotiations on this fiscal cliff deal, although he is hiding from the press, which is an interesting game. as he kind of emerges, we know that marco rubio is running. he has already been to iowa. they both have these roles. what will a fiscal cliff deal -- will paul ryan get blamed if he does, and marco rubio can he turn the party around with some push for immigration reform? risky with the base. >> it also is interesting in these kind of years where the republicans have now suffered a loss. clearly mitt romney is not going to be the party leader. they don't actually have one, and you watch the wilderness lap for a while. >> you know, candy, i hate to say this because i know we want to play along for 2016, but i think part of the problem in washington is everyone is so focused on the next election it's always an excuse not to get something done. i think the american people think we just went through an election. now please now that you all have jobs, could we actually solve problems and get something done? you know, 2016 will be here way too soon, and people,

been honest with the people. that's what the deal is. i think the fiscal cliff is just a big red herring to get rid of the social programs. i have read this in the constitution. your district has the shortest life span in the country, the highest infant mortality rate for children, the highest per capita for people without health insurance, and we follow mississippi. they are ahead of us in that area. i think that is where you are leading the country. if the people of the united states want to see where you and the republican party have taken the country, come and look at your district. >> guest: i would be delighted for people to look at my district. i think it's a great district. 14,000 farms and ranchers to tremendous military installations. you're right next to the field artillery. the colleges and universities, 11 indian tribes and about every ten years or so the best college team in america. it's a special place pitted i would argue with your statistics, but -- i do think i would reflect what people in my district think. i won the election with 68% of the vote and as you we

folks, we switch gears back. we still have no fiscal cliff deal, but there's talk between president obama and tim geithner. congress has adjourned for a long weekend. that's kind of insane. eamon javers joins us. >> reporter: the president began his day this morning before an audience of business leaders and he continued his campaign of persuasion amongst some of the nation's top ceos. >> i am passionately rooting for your success. because if the companies in this room are doing well, then small businesses and medium sized businesses up and down the chain are doing well. if companies in this room are doing well, then folks get jobs, consumers get confidence, and we're going to be able to compete around the world. >> and then larry, later in the afternoon, our steve leishman sat down with treasury secretary tim geithner. geithner in that interview late in the afternoon made it clear that this is brinksmanship of the highest order. >> i want to understand the administration's position when it comes to raising taxes on the wealthy. those making more than $250,000. if republicans do not

white house to avoid a fiscal cliff. cnbc's becky quick is here. what has more impact? the weekly jobless claims which have some sandy issues involved or the fiscal cliff talks? >> definitely the fiscal cliff. what you were talking about yesterday, boehner's comments really turned things around for the markets, all this sense of optimism all of a sudden. we saw the markets go from down triple digits for the dow up to triple digits. we haven't seen a swing like that since over a year ago. it's been october of 2011 was the last time it happened. it's definitely the fiscal cliff driving things. we heard commentary from lloyd blankfein, between that and the lead story -- one of the top stories on the front page of the "wall street journal" suggesting the president is flexible on the tax hikes, that sounds like a deal might get done. you see a gain of 50 or 60 points. gdp up 2.7% from 2%. there was concerning things when you dig into the numbers, it's all fiscal cliff all the time here, chuck. >> oh, hopefully, as you guys say, it will all -- people will rise above, right, becky? >> th

about the fiscal cliff standoff. he put his foot down on what is negotiable and what is not. >> we have to say the rates on the top 2% go up. and we're not going to get a deal without it. understand the reason for that. it's not me being stubborn. it's not me being partisan. it's just a matter of math. i'm happy to entertain other ideas the republicans may present, but we are not going to cut our way to prosperity or cut our way out of the deficit problem we have. >> so, are we on the verge of something big, something that could really change our politics? joining me now, senator barbara boxer, democrat from california and whip of the senate. thank you for being on the show. >> i love being on your show. thank you. >> if the gop agrees to tax increases, how important might that be in terms of showing they actually are capable of working with the president? >> you know, the way they raised the question, if they agree to tax increases, they claim they're willing to do these loop-hole closers but the difference here is the tax rates. here's the issue. as you know, the bush tax cuts, which resulted in rates being lower for 100% of americans, they all expire at the end

term spending cuts should be part of any fiscal cliff deal. the big news this morning is we're not going over the cliff. they have a bad hand. they're going to end up passing this middle class tax thing if that's the only thing they do. and live to fight another day. you can see the momentum building. not official but you see it. the difficulty for boehner still is passing the extension may be best of the options it is an option that a chunk of his party has said he would reject. the fiscal conservatives criticizing boehner's budget pr proposal. then you had senate republicans watching their backs, rejecting a u.n. treaty that bans discrimination against those with disabilities around the world. senator jim demint said speaker boehner's $800 billion tax hike will destroy american jobs. yes, he said speaker boehner. one party proposes increase in an effort to counter them. the other party's leadership proposes, wait for it, $800 billion in tax increases and then former alaska governor sarah palin blasting boehner's decision to remove some conservatives from plum house committee assi

out of the fiscal cliff deal this morning. this is what house speaker john boehner said about the state of the negotiations. take a listen. >> i think they're -- they won the election, they must have forgotten the republicans continue to hold the majority in the house. but you know, the president's idea of a negotiation is -- roll over and do what i ask. we need to find common ground and we need to find it quickly. >> governor, are they going to be able to find that common ground quickly? >> yeah, i think they are. you know i have to laugh. in the first term, the president was criticized by his base for giving in too quickly or too easily. this is a negotiation. and in the negotiation, you don't put on the table initially where you want to wind up. you put out what's your bargaining position and both sides have to understand that. but what i do think is important, is both sides, and not just the president, but our democrats in the congress as well. have to understand both sides have to understand what the other side needs to do. we're asking the republicans to raise rates. it's be

the end of the day this fiscal cliff debate will come down to two men. the speaker of the house and the president of the united states dealing one-on-one. we will go behind closed doors and into the war room. you are watching msnbc, the place for politics. can i help you? i heard you guys can ship ground for less than the ups store. that's right. i've learned the only way to get a holiday deal is to camp out. you know we've been open all night. is this a trick to get my spot? [ male announcer ] break from the holiday stress. save on ground shipping at fedex office. in that time there've been some good days. and some difficult ones. but, through it all, we've persevered, supporting some of the biggest ideas in modern history. so why should our anniversary matter to you? because for 200 years, we've been helping ideas move from ambition to achievement. and the next great idea could be yours. ♪ >>> we are watching a developing story in kansas city, missouri, right now. this is what police say appears to be a murder/suicide involving a 25-year-old nfl player. the murder involved the player's girlfriend at a house. a few minutes la

a f fiscal cliff deal. what's the latest and is this posturing, kelly, or is this real? i mean, is this disagreement about kind of laying out the stakes of where everybody stands and what they're willing to give or is it a possibility that we don't get a deal? >> reporter: well, you do hear rumblings, chris, about no deal. but at the same time people are saying there's still some negotiating time left and a bit of optimism. when you heard the tone of what was unfolding yesterday, it was kind of shocking to republicans who would say that the president's offer is so far from a negotiating point that they are surprised not so much that these are the positions that we're in because much has been the president's public rhetoric but in terms of real negotiating they say they were surprised this wasn't the kind of offer that would have happened some weeks ago, meaning right after the election if you want to start there. but now with just four weeks to go they felt the president needed to move further. democrats believe these are the priorities that voters reinforced with their ballots on

little less than an hour. >> host: as part of our series looking at that so-called fiscal cliff that's looming, we're looking at different aspects of it. and today we turn our attention to the alternative minimum tax and the patch that could come from congress if they're able to work out a deal. if they do nothing, this will impact 30 million americans. joining us to discuss is georgetown law's john buckley. thank you for being here. john buckley, let's begin. what is the alternative minimum tax? >> guest: well, in very simple terms, the tax requires you to pay the greater of what you pay under the regular income tax or what you would compute under the minimum tax which has a slightly broader base. it disallows some deductions that would be allowed in the regular tax. in some respects it's very similar to the cap on itemized deductions that's currently being discussed. rather than directly attack preferences and expenditures, it essentially puts an overall cap on the benefit. there's no new ideas in this debate. the cap bears a very strong relationship to how the alternative minimum tax works. >> host: here is the form 6251 from the irs for the 2011 tax preparations. and here's part one, thetive minimum taxable income and all these instructions, 28 of them, to help you come up w

to continue, they have to be part of the fiscal cliff deal because it's unlikely that house republicans would allow these to appear freestanding. using these as leverage in terms of negotiation. house republicans could sleep fine knowing the payroll tax cut is not extended and the ui is not extended. they think that's too much spending. >> which is crazy because they're arguing for the top earners really putting their stake in the ground on top earners and when it comes to working class and poor tax cuts are a bad thing. >> the payroll tax cut there's a division between democrats about how much you want to raid the social security trust fund. but unemployment insurance, i think absolutely has to be part of the deal from the white house perspective aside from it fitting the democrat ex-ideology, it's also what president obama believes is a stimulus to the economy. >> yeah. >> that helps people have disposable income to go to restaurants, buy gas, buy food, to pay things for their children. and i would be very surprised if it ended up as part of the larger deal because it's no

fiscal cliff negotiations is putting blame on the gop. here's timothy geithner on "meet the press." >> the only thing that stands in the way of a deal right now is if a group of republican members decide they are going to block a deal because they want to extend tax cuts. what you can expect from the and the a willingness to sit down and explore what the best way to get through this is. it's in the interest of the american people. >> that was followed by a fierce response from grover norquist, the man behind the no tax hike pledge embraced by many in the gop. >> every republican who had impure thoughts has to go back to the drawing board. they have just been told there are no real reforms in this budget. $1.6 trillion in tax increases. >> joining me is eleanor cliff and david dreker thank you for being here. so eleanor, we have timothy geithner who says there will be a deal before the end of the year but it doesn't look like anyone is willing to budge. is that your take away? >> i think there's a rhythm to these negotiations. and right now each side is staking out their optimal position. the republicans reportedly laughed at the proposal.

tax increase, that's a big deal but it doesn't save us from the fiscal cliff. as susan was suggesting, there's a long time to go between now and the 31st. they have to wait until that long because neither side wants to appear to be giving in too early. that means they've given away more than they had to. you've got the president out there stirring the pot, trying to bring public opinion more to his side. the republicans are struggling to find some message to keep up with it. the danger is this whole thing boils over in animosity before the 31st and they go off the cliff because they have antagonized each other so much. >> and speaking of antagonistic situations, there's been a lot made of the dysfunction within the republican party but there's an article on the front page of the "new york times" that suggests that speaker boehner is actually in a stronger position in his caucus than when he was elected two years ago. how is he doing, do you think? >> well, i think he's in a stronger position because republicans feel like they're in a weaker position. i think a lot of republicans who m

work next week hopefully to get a fiscal cliff deal. >> maybe the movie "lincoln" will inspire senators to work together. a special screening is scheduled for december 19th. senate aides said they will not screen the movie on the senate floor but somewhere else. >> michelle obama has said over and over again she never wants to run for office but a new poll shows her leading senator mark kirk in a very hypothetical matchup. the illinois republican had a stroke last year. >> tonight the entire obama family will gather around the christmas tree. it just happens to be the national christmas tree. it will take place at 5:00 eastern time. >> if you read only one thing this morning, maybe you're already thinking about your new year's resolution to get in better shape. how could you resist this headline? my must read is courtesy of prevention magazine. it's on facebook/jansingco. yep, they're real. we've got more rollbacks on toys all december. wait, was that real? [ male announcer ] this christmas, get the hottest brands and rollbacks on the season's hottest toys, like the beyblade de

cliff. that's the hill newspaper. here's politico this morning, inside the talk, fiscal cliff deal emerging is what some write this morning. and that's from politico this morning. first call up on our question this morning, g.o.p. says address the spending problem and in silver spring, maryland, democrat, good morning anne. caller: yes, well i would like the g.o.p. to be a little more specific because all of them who signed the pledge they want to slink government. i listen to c-span. they're so upset about ben gauzey, which they should be upset about, they don't take into account that the state department has a shoestring budget. people are very upset about the compounding, but the f.d.a. operates on a shoestring budget because they have been shrinking government. host: so anne, do you see room for cut? caller: yes, i see room for budget cuts in the defense department. i'm a senior citizen facing retirement, and i really do believe in some means testing for social security. it's an insurance program. and there are people, you're just like with your health insurance, if you're really lucky

way, doing the deal to avoid raising the rates and avoiding the fiscal cliff, where all tax cuts and brakes expire at the end of the year. that is an election, popular at the end of the year, certainly give president obama a lot of clout right now. you can disagree or agree with the policy. that is for you to decide. republican tom cole of oklahoma happens to disagree strongly. at the same time, he recognizes the political reality that all tax cuts will expire on january one, and no one wants to raise taxes on what would amount to 98% of all the taxpayers. >> in my view, we agree we're not going to raise taxes on people that make more than $250,000, we should just take them out of this discuss right now. continue to fight against any rate increases and continue to fight for a much bigger deal. >> congressman cole joins us, the staunchly conservative editorial page of "the wall street journal is on board now. president obama's re-election means that taxes for upper income earners are going up one way or another. the question is how republicans should handle this reality. congressman c

getting the fiscal cliff deal done before everyone's taxes go up. >> consolation lunch? president obama visits mitt romney to the white house today and everyone is buzzing about it. could obama offer him a job? >> congratulations to someone. you just won the gdp of a small nation. not just one but two winning tickets in last night's record powerball drawing. we'll tell you where. >> and if they will be my best friend soon. we have a packed show. john ba, rasso, adam shif, rick warren, tom cole, connie and mary bono mack and steven holcomb. >> we have so many people coming up. it is thursday, november 2. "starting point" begins right now. >>> good morning, everyone. our starting point this morning, developments happening now in cairo. the u.s. embassy there is closed. no one is being allowed in or out as we speak. >> embassy officials say protesters are blocking the entrance and clashes are happening near nearby. reza sayah is nearby for us. what's happening? >> reporter: there is no indication protesters are targeting the u.s. em wibassy b it was closed as a precaution. these are

by two to one if we don't reach a deal for the fiscal cliff. and it's also the reason why you see voters very clearly support having the wealthiest pay a little bit more. it the one proposal that is consistently -- it received strong support from a ma sdwrort majority of reporters and they dig their heels in and say we don't support this. they are on the wrong side of politics, wrong side of what history supports. it's just a bad strategy all the way around. >> now, what happened last time we held the debt ceiling hostage, it led to the first credit down grade in u.s. history. the stock market dropped 1300 points in 2011 and the gop rating dropped 11 point, congresswoman. do we need to play this game again? >> no. and that's why the president went to the business roundtable. this is a very unpopular and there are real kwens. the downgrading of our credit rating is consequential to say that he's not playing that game anymore in front of business leaders. >> let me ask you this, margie. nancy pelosi argued that the democrats must stand strong against raising the medicare eligibility

the fiscal cliff to scare everyone into doing a budget deal. the fiscal cliff has come about because of happenstance. we have a series of events that were designed to happen. we have other things that are going to happen that are not necessarily intended. debt going to hit the ceiling again very shortly after the first of the year. that is something at happens when it happens. host: one piece you alluded to with entitlements is the simpson-bowles would raise the social security retirement age. explain where it would go. guest: it would raise the retirement age. right now it is scheduled to go up to 67. that was a deal reached in the 1980's to keep social security solvent. we are living longer. or social security was first created, the retirement age was 65. life expectancy was 64. now we're talking life expectancy of around 80. what this does is raising up and indexes s list. in 2075, the benefits will start being paid out. when you're 69, there are 67. like expectancy will grow at a faster rate. some argue this is still a cut because it is changing from current law. others argue it

you have these offers viewed by each side as not serious, kind of like fiscal cliff bungee jumping. people jump in and spring back out. but i believe the odds are good that there will be some sort of deal before the cliff. >> let's get into the longer- term deal -- everyone believes entitlement reform and tax reform is going to take place in 2013, maybe 2014. but just in the short term, can the republicans, can enough republicans say, we do not like it, but we are going to go along for now with the 39.6% rate and come back with a promise of next year of trying to lower and broaden the base? >> i would much prefer that we do the kind of pro-growth reform that i laid out in a bill a few weeks ago, not thinking that this bill is going to become law, but a way to show a path forward with $4.5 trillion in savings. i think that in the event that the house feels that, when they see that the senate is obviously controlled by the democratic party, you have a democratic president, you basically have the president, let's face it, not being too pejorative, that has been a one trick pony. it has been the rate is all we have been talking about, really nothing else. in the event -- i think this is what tom

coalition for the purposes of this fiscal cliff deal. that includes house democrats. and how do i go about doing that without totally alienating the base of my party? and i'm very curious to see what his next step is because his opening offer was essentially where he said he could only go in the debt ceiling bargains of july 2011. he said i can go to $800 billion in revenue, i can do these specific entitlement reforms. that's now his opening offer. where does he go here? >> i think, though, steve that the president of the united states and mr. lew and other democrats need to start looking at him differently. he is like an attorney that knows what his client is going to give and what his client's not going to give. we all know john boehner. john boehner's a deal maker. i didn't -- i liked him personally, but i never trusted him in congress because, you know, he liked making deals. that's what we need right now. the president can only push him so far. or he loses his caucus. and this is not about john boehner kicking and screaming. this is about him knowing what he can deliver. >> i un

a deal on the fiscal cliff, and do you think that at least the promise of spending cuts has to be included in this level deal at this time? >> i don't think there's -- i don't think it's a productive for either side to lay out hard lines in terms of what the size of the spending cuts ought to be. there's clearly -- there are a lot of options on how you could get there. but the second part of your question was? >> my question is, do you think the promise of spending cuts has to be included in the deal that averts the fiscal cliff? >> listen, there's a framework that we presented to the white house two weeks ago. the framework is -- has been agreed to in terms of really a down payment on the end of this year. that would include spending cuts and it would include revenue. setting up a process for entitlement reform next year, and tax reform next year. but this was way out of balance. and not a recognition on the part of the white house about the serious spending problem that we have. [ inaudible question ] going over the fiscal cliff, you called serious business, extending the lower tax rates -- [ inaudible questi

wolffe on today's nonsense from republicans and where a deal on the fiscal cliff stands. and former health insurance executive wendell potter on what obama's proposed $340 billion in medicare cuts will mean for seniors. >>> vice president joe biden stumps for the middle class at a retail store that treats its workers right. i'll talk costco and fiscal cliff with steve greenhouse of "the new york times." >>> plus hostess executives tank their company and cost the people their jobs. so why are they still demanding millions of dollars in bonuses? >>> and we'll tell you how senator john mccain fits in with congressman louie gohmert's latest conspiracy theory. >> this administration sent planes and bombs and support to oust gadhafi so al qaeda and the muslim brotherhood could take over libya. >>> good to have you with us tonight, folks. republicans are walking tall in public but hanging their heads behind closed doors. john boehner struck a defiant tone during a news conference today. he blamed the president and democrats for stalling negotiations on a debt deal. >> despite the claims th

? >> well, just look at speaker boehner's fiscal cliff proposal. three-page letter with three simple bullet points. that's the entire proposal to deal with the fiscal cliff and starts out with the sentence that's remarkable, tamron. first sentence is because the election is a status quo, both sides have to compromise. they didn't see what happened. they just dismissed it as a status quo election and this is not just speaker boehner we eric cantor and paul ryan, kevin mccarthy. the entire house republican leadership signed on to the so-called fiscal cliff proposal letter. they're not serious about negotiating. i don't know the right wing and the tea party of who the republican party is nowadays but it's impossible to have a deal with one side refuses to compromise even after losing. they will not accept their own defeat. >> right. >> and that is the problem. >> a.b. let's play what congressman walter jones had to say on this boehner purge. i have the full screen of what he had to say when several members were removed as identified not being team players. he says, i was surprised but i won't sacrifice my integrity for anyone or any party.

: yeah. let's go behind the scenes of the talks to avoid the fiscal cliff. it seems the framework for a deal actually might be taking shape. if so, what will it look like? david drucker has been nosing around a little bit. the associate politics editor at "roll call." when you hear senators and speaker of the house come out and talk it doesn't sound like they're all that close, david. are you optimistic? >> well i'm sort of on the fence here, jon. whenever you hear members of congress talk about any kind of fiscal cliff deal you have to approach it with a sort of believe everything and believe nothing attitude. i think that everybody wants to avoid having taxes go up for all americans as of january 1st but everybody has a price for that. and it, to me, it's about whether or not both sides are looking for a win-win deal, meaning, my opponent wins and i win. or whether both sides or one of the sides are looking for a deal where only i win and you lose and on top of all of that then we have to look at what do they want to include in any sort of deal? are we going to address entitlement reform? are we go

trying to essentially give some encouragement to get the fiscal cliff deal talks ignited and going. and so this comes on -- the speech is coming on a breaking news day jenna of what you and i were talking about and that is basically citigroup laying off 11,000 workers as the president is now speaking to the business roundtable. those layoffs at the nation's third biggest bank have begun. jenna: let's talk a little bit more about that, liz, that news came into our newsroom a couple of hours ago. you've been working this. learning more about also what is to come for the big bank. why is the bank making such massive job layoffs now and what is really to come in the next year or so? >> reporter: yeah, what we're talking about here is essentially this is citigroup, this i is the bank that got $476 billion in bailout help. it got the most bailout help of any bank. what happened was citigroup was -- its ceo had stepped down a couple months ago, now they have a new ceo by the name of michael corbett, an is working very aggressively to cut out the excess, the middle management layers, the w

about fiscal cliff negotiations. he says he is optimistic a deal can be reached with the president. >> morning, everyone. going over the fiscal cliff will hurt our economy and will her job creation in our country. republicans are committed to continuing to work with the president to come to an agreement to avert the so-called fiscal clef. one reason why we believe that we put revenue on the table as long as it is accompanied by serious spending cuts to avert a crisis. we believe this is the president's request for a balanced approach to this issue, and we are going to continue to work with the president to try to resolve this in a way that is fair for the american people. we all now that we have had the spending crisis coming at us like a freight train. it has to be dealt with. in order to try to come to an agreement, republicans are willing to put revenue on the table. it is time for the president and democrats to get serious about the spending problem our country has. i am optimistic. we can continue to work together to avert this crisis, sooner rather than later. >> good morning

from the middle class out. that's really what the crux of this fiscal cliff negotiation -- what these fiscal cliff negotiations are all about. they're about fairness. when the president and congressional democrats talk about the need for balanced approach, to deficit reduction and dealing with the fiscal cliff, we're talking about fairness. we're talking about making sure that if you work hard and play by the rules everyone has a chance to succeed. that the middle class needs certainly tight right now. speaker pelosi and my colleague congressman tim walls, filed a discharge petition today to take the bill that we have, that has already passed the senate, that grants certainty to the middle class, to take that bill up and make sure that we can extend the middle class tax breaks before the holidays where we can give -- that's what everyone agrees on. i don't know any republican or democrat that thinks we should let those tax rates -- tax cuts for the middle class expire. so we should pass that now. and then on the things that we're having more trouble agreeing on, we should sit down at the table. the one thing i can assure you, the president and democrats in congress, have consistently said, we're not going to do this -- there is no my way or the highway. we have concrete pro

. obama and the democrats get their way, doing a deal to raise just those rates would avoid the fiscal cliff, where all bush era tax cuts on all tack tax brackets expire at the ends of the year. the election, popular opinion and more give president obama a lot of clout right now. and you can agree or disagree with the president's policy. that's for you to decide. republican congressmen tom cole of oklahoma disagrees stronsly. at the same time, he recognizes the political reality that all tax cuts will expire on january 1st and no one wants to raise taxes on what would amount to 98% of all taxpayers. >> in my view, we all agree that we're not going to raise taxes on people that make less than $250,000. we should just take them out of discussion right now. continue to fight against any rate increases, continue to try to work honestly for a much bigger deal. >> congressman cole joins us shortly. a rock rib conservative. chair of the national republican congressional committee, and he's no longer a lone voice in the wilderness. the staunchly conservative editorial page of "the wall street

the democratic leaders briefed reporters on negotiations on the fiscal cliff compromise. lawmakers have until december to negotiate a deal that would avert the tax decreases that would affect in january. this is 20 minutes. >> i had a nice meeting a separate that are this morning. i always enjoyed meeting with him. democrats are on the same page. freezing the texas for the first for. letting the rich go up to the sum of aware for the clinton cabinet permission. republicans know where we stand. we have said it so many times. it has been at least two weeks since met at the warehouse. now is the time for republicans to move past the happy talk. to put specifics of the table. the president made his proposal. we need a proposal from him. the rest of the glove there are a reasonable republicans britain from the pack. do members have said this and sang it. they should bring to the floor of the house the bill does pass over here would pass a center of the press today. the house republicans, if it would simply allow a vote. we're not going to kick the can down the road. we will finalize this this year. the american people want us to a

message that the country cares about not going off of the fiscal cliff and put it in place a comprehensive debt deal to deal with our country's fiscal challenges. the message they bought was we do not want you to go off the cliff. we do not want to bet the country. we want you to fix the country. we had a number of productive meetings in the past couple of days at the white house and leadership with the house and senate. and the first of house and senate members. we have come back pleased that we have been able to deliver the message of how the are so many people with different backgrounds and political points of view and life experiences who believe this is a critical moment for the country and a test for the country. but we are asking the members of congress to do is come together and take on these challenges, work together and put in place a plan for the good of the country. it is not about special interests. it is about public interest. this is a message dated first group of folks -- a diverse group of folks can deliver. on the campaign to fix the debt, i am so thrilled with what has happened in th

and the economy. this is similar, except it will focus on the fiscal cliff. $2,000 is the amount the average american will see taxes increase by if they can't get a deal done. i've been looking at the entries to this hash tag, it's mixed so president obama can expect tough x questions. one person writes in, why don't republicans in congress realize that when we voted for you we voted for your tax plan. that's one person. another writes in, what are you willing to compromise with the gop to get this fiscal cliff stuff done? i think president obama preparing to answer some tough questions from voters. over the weekend house speaker john boehner said these negotiations are nowhere. jay carney disagrees with that assessment. now phone calls at this point between president obama and congressional leaders, but the white house says the talks will be ongoing over the next several days, tamron. >> thank you. the president's q and a on twitter comes days after republicans flat-out rejected his opening bid in negotiations. house speaker john boehner appeared on one sunday morning talk show to see the president's proposal was not in his opinion a proposal at all. >> i

the debt ceiling fell apart. to understand what's going on during the hopeless fiscal cliff negotiations rewind to 2011 when boehner and president obama came within inches of a grand bargain, a deal that would have forced both democrats and republicans to eat their vegetables. in its comprehensive analysis of what happens during the secret negotiations, matt bai wrote -- the deal unraveled in large part because speaker boehner could not get his unruly caucus to go along with raising new revenue. fast forward to this year and republicans now think that deal, the one they walked away from, sounds pretty good. they're using it as a basis for their current proposal. only problem. boehner had his chance. president obama now thinks he has the upper hand. according to the "washington post's" ezra klein, quote -- >> joining us now representative chris van hollen of maryland, ranking member of the house budget committee. great to have you on the program. >> great to be with you, alex. >> let's talk a little bit about 2011 versus 2012, which is to say, the republican party is a very different negotiating position than they were last year and as ezra outlines, it sounds like john boehner would p

disastrous a cliff to go off? >> first of all, no one wants to go off any cliff or hill or slope. there is a responsible way to revolve this. but if we take a bad deal and say that all of the nation's fiscal problems are to be balanced on the back of middle class families and the wealthy don't participate, that's a bad deal we cannot and should not live within this country. >> shortly before your public comments about this this past summer, i was hearing off the record from democratic senators they believed they were going to have to go off the cliff because at that time, they couldn't conceive of any other way for republicans to violate their pledge to grover norquist that in january, once you're off the cliff, what everyone would be voting r for would not be considered a tax increase, so they thought they were going have to do it. is there now a growing feeling among democrats that the republicans are breaking up with norquist in such numbers that they might be able to do something reasonable before new year's eve? >> yeah, well, the fact is if we can't get a good deal and the

-- build another fiscal cliff to put on pressure, which puts us right back where we are, or have a default mechanism which has policy set aside that both sides do not like. one thing about the baseline -- under current law, if the congress packed its bags right now and went away, at the end of the 10-year period our debt to gdp ratio would be under 1%. he would definitely solve the deficit problem. >> under 1%? >> i believe. >> the percentage of your debt -- not the deficit to gdp? >> debt to gdp. now, we do not want to get there that way. the same way we do not want to go over the fiscal class. the fiscal cliff is big austerity -- you get $7 trillion in deficit reduction over 10 years. but you do not do it you really want to do it. when it comes to the baseline, you have to work together as part of an agreement to get to the right baseline. that does not mean it is not real world deficit-reduction. it is. does it mean it is better than current law? maybe not. but there is agreement that current law, including the fiscal cliff, is not the best way. >> we have our baseline. deficit

offered a plan to avoid the fiscal cliff through significant spending cuts. >> we put revenue on the table as long as it's accompanied serious spending cuts to avert the crisis. >> the bipartisan bowl deficit plan had savings worth pursuing. >> they identified $1.1 trillion tax expenditures, benefits, deductions, credits and the like that could be cut as part of a grand bargain. i think we ought to look at that flat ten the code simplify it. >> harry reid told reporters yesterday he would like to get credit for what congress has previously cut. >> we have already done more than a billion dollars worth of cuts. >> the top democrat in the house took a similar approach. >> it is important to know that we have already agreed to over a trillion and a half dollars in cuts at both budget control and others in this session of congress. so now we are looking to see if we can do that. >> though asked what she would be willing to slash as part of this deal rank and file house members say they realize more must be done now. >> we get a senfolks making a mn dollars a year maybe they aren't able to acce

hoyer gives me the latest fiscal cliff developments and the democratic line on medicare. tom perriello from the center of american progress action fund on how democrats can deal with republicans who can't deal with reality. rubio and ryan reload with a new message for the middle class. >> both parties tend to divide americans into our voters and their voters. >> but there is no escaping their own policies. >> we're going to a majority of takers versus makers in america. >> dnc chair debbie wasserman schultz responds tonight. plus, senator barbara boxer on her new plan for national polling place standards. and a new poll shows half of all republicans think the defunct group a.c.o.r.n. stole the election from president obama. >> that's an eye opener. >> i wonder where they ever got that idea? >> you just have to wait and see what happens. >>> good to have you with us tonight, folks. thanks for watching. here is are the latest. republicans are at a stalemate with the white house for debt negotiations. republicans really only have two options now, bad and worse. "the new york times" is the latest outlet to report on senior republican leaders who are ready to strike a